Catch 22 on the Chesapeake

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Catch 22
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Catch 22 on the Chesapeake

Postby Catch 22 » Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:32 am

Hello all:

My wife Bobbie and I bought the PDQ 36 ‘Catch 22’ last year in Florida and sailed her up here to the Chesapeake. We are life long sailors newly converted to the multihull world - wish we had done it years ago. That said, we could really use some advice:

- What is the secret to tacking her? We constantly end up stalling her and putting her in irons.
- When trimming to weather is it jib first then main or reverse? We eventually get it but seems to take awhile.
- When off the wind it seems hard to trim her out well enough to use the auto-pilot. I have never had a problem trimming a boat so she could sail herself.

We are so excited to join the PDQ community and the multihull community at large. Any advice is welcome.

FX & Bobbie

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thinwater
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Re: Catch 22 on the Chesapeake

Postby thinwater » Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:13 am

I've got the PDQ further up Rockhold Creek.

The trouble with tacking the PDQs is that the keels are ~3 feet too far forward. They are placed under the mast for balance when dried out, rather than best sailing balance. Stupid for my use, but perhaps smart where there is a large tidal range.

* Get her up to full speed first. You can't tack well unless the boat is going as well as it can in the conditions. You need momentum.
* Set the traveler so that it will be down about 18 inches on the new tack.
* Turn relativly quickly. Not instantly hard over, but you should be spinning the wheel. Turn well past 45 degrees to perhaps 60 degrees true.
* Let the jib go when it breaks and get it across quickly. If you have a single turn on the winch and haul, you should have very little winching to do on the new tack. Some suggest backwinding the main on cats; it doesn't work on the PDQ because of the forward keel possition. All it does is stop the boat and force her into irons. Getting the jib drawing on the new tack is what pulls the bows through on PDQs.
* Gradually bring her up to 50 degrees true, trimming the main. Don't be in a hurry to trim the main; get her moving well first. Pulling in the main will lever the bows back into the wind if she is not going well first.

She's not that hard to tack, but she does like to round up. Lower the traveler, don't back the jib, get the jib pulling first, and bring her back up on the wind slowly. If you are doing this single handed, plan well and turn the autopilot WELL past a normal tack. It's quick once you get the sequence.

Don't expect the autopilot to work hard on the wind in variable winds; it's too easy for the wind to luff the jib and put you in irons. It should work, though, when sailing just a few degrees free.

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Re: Catch 22 on the Chesapeake

Postby eepstein » Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:13 am

Hi FX and Bobbie;

Welcome to PDQs and the Chesapeake Bay. My wife and I are in Annapolis, and there a quite a few PDQs that call the DC metro area home.

Here are some of my views on handling the boat. Others may have different/better ones.

She does tack a bit worse than a Hobie Cat, but if you keep the head sail sailing through the tack and let it back wind a bit, she does okay, as long as the air is not too light. I gibe mine much of the time. If you stall it, you'll find it backs really well and you can fall off the leeward easily.

I believe most boats, including cats work best with the head sail set first then adjust the main. DO you actually have a job or a Genoa? The Genoa cars are well placed for close hauled sailing. I use a barber haul (second line) to tune it on long close hauled runs.

I found that its easy to over tighten the sails on a multi-hull as there is no healing to judge against. We have only had our boat 2 1/2 years and I still do it.

Our Blog of Chesapeake and other adventures is at desertstarpdq36.blogspot.com. Feel free to drop us an email if you want to meet up. Perhaps we can get a group together some time.

Fair winds,
Eric
Eric & Bonnie Epstein
s/v Desert Star, PDQ36, Hull 49
Annapolis, MD

Catch 22
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Re: Catch 22 on the Chesapeake

Postby Catch 22 » Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:59 am

Whoa! Thanks for the quick response…wish I could get that kind of response at work. Anyway, thanks for the advice and why it happens—the whole process was driving me nuts since I have never had problems tacking a boat in that past. This weekend we will be out on Herring Bay doing tack after tack until we get it. The placement of the keels answers a lot of why I was having so much trouble balancing her out. Armed with this I have a starting point to work with.

The question of Jib or Genoa—Catch 22 has a Genoa I just used “jib” as a generic.

Catch 22 is located in Deale, MD and I can say we would love to meet up with any PDQ sailors out there. Not sure if y’all know Petie Greens but that is our standard watering hole, the food and the folks are great.

Fair Winds, Following Seas, and Cold Beer

FX & Bobbie
Catch 22 Deale, MD

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Re: Catch 22 on the Chesapeake

Postby SecondWind » Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:13 pm

Easy on the wheel. Don't bring her hard over (to the stop) like you did on a monohull. The advice on speed and getting the jenny over quickly are well founded and match my experience. Our autopilot was pretty useless downwind, but worked fine other than that. You will find it better and faster to tack downwind rather than trying wing on wing. Enjoy your PDQ, we sure miss ours.
Terry Green
s/v Second Wind
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Re: Catch 22 on the Chesapeake

Postby Marc Gershel » Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:50 pm

Hi, I've owned hull #21 for 14 years. All the advice you got is spot on. Since I solo about 90% of the time, I have to set things up before I start a tack. The first thing is to move the main traveler car about 1.5' to windward of center, while letting out the main sheet so that the boat will not slow down. Then I use the A/P to tack. Once the jib is thru the wind, I sheet it in fast to get the boat moving again. I you still start to head up, let the mainsheet go, and try to pick up speed with the jib alone. Once you're moving OK, then you can get on course and adjust everything. This is the price we pay for not lugging around 5-6000 lb of lead for momentum.
Marc

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Re: Catch 22 on the Chesapeake

Postby Catch 22 » Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:46 pm

Wow! Thanks to all for the advice and techniques. I can see pretty much everything we were doing wrong—not wrong really just not appropriate for the PDQ. Can’t wait to get out this weekend and try this advice out. Hmmmmm, wonder if I may be getting deathly ill and need to stay home the next couple of days? We really do love Catch 22 and are thrilled we made the decision to convert to two hulls.

If y’all don’t mind I would like to continue to ask for your knowledge and advice as we learn to sail her to her best. I must say shooting across the bay at 7.5-8kts last weekend with out working our selves to death was a real kick.

Should any of you wonder by Paradise Marina in Deale, MD please stop by—the beer is always cold.

FX & Bobbie
Catch 22

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Re: Catch 22 on the Chesapeake

Postby Phenix » Tue Jul 19, 2011 4:09 pm

Catch 22, welcome to the board! Great thread too!
--

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Re: Catch 22 on the Chesapeake

Postby maxicrom » Tue Jul 19, 2011 5:26 pm

Welcome aboard,

We're in Edgewater not too far from Eric and Bonnie - Linda and I made the jump to a cat from a 44' wooden ketch - we're still having trouble with falling off into irons... Just takes some getting used to and breaking old habits.
Mike & Linda
S/V II the Max

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Re: Catch 22 on the Chesapeake

Postby holomoku » Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:13 pm

SecondWind wrote:Easy on the wheel. Don't bring her hard over (to the stop) like you did on a monohull. The advice on speed and getting the jenny over quickly are well founded and match my experience. Our autopilot was pretty useless downwind, but worked fine other than that. You will find it better and faster to tack downwind rather than trying wing on wing. Enjoy your PDQ, we sure miss ours.


I think this is really key, Hard over and the rudders on the 36 turn into brakes and cause the stall. I stop the wheel 1/4-1/2 turn from hard over. Keep the turn going as fast as possible at that rudder angle. When the jib/genoa starts to die, pull it over quick. Go a little farther off the wind before stopping the turn, gain speed again, then cheat back toward the wind.

I'm on Rockhold creek in Deale as well. Same dock as thinwater, just across from the CITGO fuel dock. Hope to see you out there this weekend!

Spencer

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Re: Catch 22 on the Chesapeake

Postby thinwater » Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:28 pm

I'm actually re-launching tomarrow, after a short haul-out for paint. I may get there this weekend.

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Re: Catch 22 on the Chesapeake

Postby Catch 22 » Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:40 am

All:

Clearly there is a wonderful camaraderie to the PDQ community and there seems to be a real desire to sail the boats to their best potential possible – makes our decision to go PDQ even better. Though I have been sailing and racing for many years I am always interested in the nuance of our addiction to get better. This really gives me a quick start.

I too, hope to see some of you out there so I can get in trail and see if I am actually practicing what you have taught. For those in the Chesapeake area it would be nice to get together over a brew or two to talk crusing, destinations, sailing, and just general lies to each other.

Hope to see ya soon.

FX & Bobbie
Catch 22

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Re: Catch 22 on the Chesapeake

Postby Page 83 » Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:54 am

Hi FX and Bobbie! Glad you found us, but I DISTINCTLY recall telling you about the Forum last year! [g] These tricks work. The sleeper here is high siding the traveller so that after the tack the main is out further, and not fighting the jib to bring the bows into the wind. Bring the traveller back up as speed builds after the tack. I tend to hold the jib a bit when there is more than 5 knots of boat speed before the tack to bring the bows down quicker. Sheeting it as soon as it luffs is the proper technique in light air. If you are using a screacher, roll it up all the way and get your best speed without it before tacking.
Sandy Daugherty "Page 83" PDQ 36026

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Re: Catch 22 on the Chesapeake

Postby Catch 22 » Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:27 am

Thanks Sandy:

You are right about the forum; it just took me awhile to get to it. I like what you are saying about high siding the traveler…makes sense for us since I do almost all the sail handling and Bobbie has the helm. I am still trying different things to deal with the much bigger cockpit and not being able to reach everything from one spot.

I was hoping you were still around since you were a big part of our decision to seek a PDQ 36.

Thanks for the direction.

FX & Bobbie
Catch 22

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Re: Catch 22 on the Chesapeake

Postby thinwater » Fri Jul 22, 2011 7:23 am

Sees like a PDQ raft-up on Herring Bay, off the beach, might be fun. We should throw a note to all of the Geminis too.


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