Genoa questions

[thinwater]

Yes, it is a lot of rope, more like 130' for my PDQ 32. It can be thinner - 3/8" is pleanty.

I like flying a chute in a breeze, perhaps up to 20kn, or at least being prepared if the wind comes up. I like having all of the lines rigged and ready.

By the way, Anytom, I'm quite sure that the chute could put your PDQ over in a 20 kt breeze on a beam reach. A lot of power. When the breeze comes on you have to either get it down, or sheet out and bare off. And to do either, you need room to leeward.

[amytom]

Light winds are what I want the assym for. In a good blow the self tacker would do just fine with a reefed main. The ICW around here is plagued with too many light days but I still want to get out there.

[thinwater]

I don't know the ICW where you are, but it is probably too tight for the chute.

Go outside!

[amytom]

Finally making some progress. Here's a picture of the new sail setup for a test fit. The winches are installed but they are non-self tailing Harken 32's.

The two questions left are what size line for the sheets? 1/2" seems a little large, would 3/8" do the trick? Also, cam cleats: Drew, where do you have them mounted for your rear winches?


Thanks again for the help.


Tom

New Genoa 1a.JPG (31.54 KiB) Viewed 15722 times

[thinwater]

As high as the clew is, I'm thinking the sheeting point needs to be WAY back, perhaps at the back end of the cockpit. The PO on my boat mounted a ~30" genoa track on the side deck between the stanchion infront of the side gate and the next one forward. I have both genoa (forward) and chute (aft) blocks on that track. I would try a few sheeting points by tying a block to a stauncian base (but I wouldn't do that in any real wind because of the stress--since the winch can produce ~ 1800 pounds of pull and the block is behind the winch, the load on the block can be over 3,000 pounds). Trim it on a close reach and try to get it to flow right. The sheet will be outside the railing and outside the shrouds. This will prevent you from sailing quite close hauled; oh well.

The sheet will run over the edge of the cockpit. Under load it will cut right through the gelcoat. You will need a bit of SS rubrail.

Put a big backing plate under the winch. The PO didn't and I pulled a winch through the deck. About 2 inches dia bigger than the winch will do, either 1/8-inch FRP or aluminum.
http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/2010/ ... s-she.html

I don't know what winches you have mounted already. I assume you have 2 on starboard and would match that. I would mount the winch aft, given that the sheet will be aft, but I can use either port winch on either line (have when the forward winch pulled!). I generally have the genoa on the forward winch--easier to reach. http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/2010/11/capsize.html. I would suggest a cam cleat on each side; even though I have self tailing winches, I use the cam cleats (and no more than 3 turns on the winches) for ALL sheets when it's blowing hard; the self-tailers are too slow.

3/8" is good for a chute, 7/16" for a genoa. Have 1/2" (PO) and it is a little fat, but I've used both and 1/2" is nice when tacking (but stiff when new). Either. Polyester is fine (I've used Kevlar and even a nylon climbing rope when I forgot the sheet at home, and it scarcely matters).

[Page 83]

Barber haulers are lines that pull a headsail sheet inboard. The commonly consist of a light weight snatch block (the gray plastic kind) that attaches to the sheet, a fairlead, and a cleat.They should be located just aft of the clew and inboard enough to pull the clew in to about 7 degrees off centerline. They are a semi-acceptable substitute for inboard genoa tracks, but add to the mare's nest of line clutter.

They are similar in concept to Spinnaker twings or Twingers, but these pull down instead of inboard.

AmyTom; that clew is EXTREMELY high, as if it was made for a cutter. The rule of thumb for a sheet lead angle is to draw a line from the midpoint of the luff through the clew to place the middle of a genoa track. It looks like you need another 12 feet of boat behind you!

[amytom]

The clew is very high, I wasn't sure about it at first but during my test fit I was able to keep the leach and the foot tight by sheeting to the back where the spinnaker track normally goes. I have 30 days to see if I like it and return if I don't.

For winches, I only had the Harken 32 self tailing on the starboard side; this ran everything. I added two Harken 32 non-self tailing to the back corners (where PDQ put the non-cored pads). I will also be adding a cam cleat to each side to back up the winches.

I also need to add the tracks between the aft cleats and the forward gate stanchions for the turning blocks.

And lastly I will also need spreader boots.

[Page 83]

That's a relief! Looks like you got it under control.

If you do decide to send it back, a lower clew will give you a lot more sail area, with a lower CP a bit further aft and that's all good horsepower. With my screacher I'm alway worried about uncovering a rudder behind a wave or wake, that would put all the pressure on the other rudder, possibly turning a lea helm into a bad situation.

[thinwater]

This post includes a good picture of the aft quarter of the boat.

http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/2011/ ... anvas.html

In my humble opinion, with the stanchions in the way as they are, tracks aren't that great on this boat. I vote with Page 83 that picking good locations for windward work (and broad reaching for the chute) and then adding a barberhauler to pull the leads forward is probably more wise on this specific boat.

Seriously, I would try some temporary rigging with slings and biners (in light winds) before I started drilling holes. It would be easy to place a track and find the whole track is the wrong place.

I did play with hauling the genoa lead inboard of the spreaders, for windward work. I wasn't impressed. It seemed like I just got more leeway. It's easy to play with, if you have 2 winches (attach them both to the tack and vary the load sharing).

[amytom]

Well good news and bad news.The sail worked out fairly well but we decided to return it under the 30 day "fit test" after our trip was over. The clew is just too high. Unfortunately one of our new spreader boots tore through and tore the sail. Not bad but enough that I don't feel comfortable asking them to take it back.

We'll probably take it down to SouthSails and have Mack patch and rework it. The bottom pane is about 42" at the luff but tapers down to about 8" at the clew, replacing this would bring the clew down to where it should be for this boat.

Another issue is the winch / cleat at the back corners. The cleat is too low for the line to feed from the drum correctly. (see picture). Any thoughts on how to raise the cleat?

IMG_0045a.JPG (87.85 KiB) Viewed 15412 times

[thinwater]

Well, now you know where to put the wear patch for the spreader! Could be worse.

I don't see a reason to move the cleat. The line is only in it when you are not trimming. When you are easing or trimming it's in your hand. That is where mine is and I wouldn't move it. However, if you want to try, You can buy risers or a block of Starboard or teak (I've had wooden risers--go for plastic). Being able to get you're knuckles lower when the cushion is in place might be nice. Where it is you have to push the line in.

Do you have a rub strip where the line rubs on the cockpit edge? If not, you will wear through the gel coat.

[thinwater]

I actually have 2 cam cleats on starboard; when it's really blowing I will keep both the main and genoa/chute in cams and out of the self-tailers.

[amytom]

No rub strip yet. Im going to wait until I get the sail cut, get a proper t-rail installed then look at where to put a rub strip. Besides, this boat is more paint than gelcoat and in need of a paint job.