Survey 2 - Wind/waves

[mikeandrebecca]

Since I had so much fun with my dinghy survey thread, here is another one...

I am curious about the most extreme conditions you have been out in with your PDQ 32. I ask this because we are relatively new sailors and we were recently caught in some 30-35 knot winds, and didn't enjoy it a whole lot. I would like to know what conditions you have been out in, and how the boat reacted. I'm not going looking for bad weather to sail in, but I'm curious how the boat would respond.

Mike

PS: I am aware of the 32 that flipped off the west coast and that was definitely in my mind when we were out there.

[thinwater]

First, the PDQ that flipped made mistakes you should never make. Your situation was no where close. The Chesapeake at 30-35 knots downwind is a crazy sleigh ride, but not dangerous like a lee shore.
* They should not have gone out and other sailors in the area questioned their actions. Cruisers should NEVER be in that much of a hurry. Sailors have to respect the weather, because at some point, it is too much. I generally tend to avoid bad weather more to limit breakage and wear than because of fear; why strain my boat more than I need to?
* They got caught on a lee shore, with no room to run-off.
* They were in a known area of crossing sea and currents. I don't know the area, but from what I understand it is like the Gulf Stream in some ways.
* They were new to the boat and perhaps new to cats.

The best way to learn boat handling in bad weather is in a small boat. I learned on a beach cat; my worst test was in 30-35 knot sustained on-shore winds at the mouth of the Delaware Bay (I was young and stupid, OK). The waves were mountainous and we sailed back in under jib-only. How did I make this stupid mistake? I came out from behind a point of land and was surprised and could not tack or jibe. Taking down the main in those conditions on a beach cat is not fun, as it has to come off (no sail slugs). But we did not capsize because we did a few things right.
* Never get broadside to big waves. Ever.
* Never try to jibe with too much sail up to carry up-wind. You will either break something or pitchpole. Been there, done that. You won't have any real warning in mid-jibe, but you may notice that the bows are starting to dive before that (VERY bad sign). In rough weather, never sail down wind with sails you can't carry up-wind, in part because you will have to come up-wind to take them down.
* Down wind, most of your area should be jib. The keels on the PDQs are too far forward and the rudders are small; they will over load and the boat will get sideways. I think you have seen this.
* Anticipate waves and gusts and bear off BEFORE they push. On many boats they call this "steering for balance". Imagine trying to keep the boat under the sails. You really learn this on small boats, as it is MANDATORY.

I think the self-tacking jib is a poor down wind sail. You can't control the twist, and when you roll some up it is worse. I think you would have been happier with either just the genoa partly rolled or perhaps 3 reefs in the main and some jib. The boat simply does not like sail aft when it is blowing hard.

Read a book on beach cats. Think about the fact that the keels are MUCH further forward than most boats (they placed them for drying-out, not sailing balance, which I resent). Practice. And avoid 35-knots off-shore.

My experiences with the PDQ 32:
* Upwind in more than 20 knots isn't worth it. I sailed a short distance in 30-35 knots true in sheltered waters; 2 reefs and a little bit of jib did work pretty well. Off-shore, I wouldn't have had enough power; on the Bay it would have been jarring and not worth the wear.
* Downwind I have sail in 30 knots with 1 reef and some jib and it was FAST (12-16 knots), but I had to pay attention to keeping her headed down. 2 reefs would have been smarter, but I was having fun--it reminded me of my Stiletto! My next sail will have 3 reefs, for better balance, and since yours is new, I would add them. Downwind I might consider gusts to 35 knots a reasonable forecast... or maybe not. NOT off-shore.

I would not go out in more than that because of the potential for things to get worse and because eventually, I'm going to need to enter a harbor; that can be the worst part. I love 15-20 knots under the right conditions, but more than that becomes work. I'm not trying to prove anything anymore.

[jak430]

I don't recall reading about a lee shore. How did that play into the capsize? When we had 30 knot winds going down the Baja we rode the sleigh downwind and did not have to turn back into the wind.
John & Regina
'DreamCatcher'
PDQ32

[mikeandrebecca]

John and Regina: How much sail did you have up at that time?

[jak430]

M & R
We had a double reef and should have had a triple.
John & Regina

[thinwater]

I don't recall reading about a lee shore. How did that play into the capsize? When we had 30 knot winds going down the Baja we rode the sleigh downwind and did not have to turn back into the wind.
John & Regina
'DreamCatcher'
PDQ32

Only infered.

* The boat ended up in a cove near there.
* There was no mention of running off, only of seas on the beam.
* The storm came in from the WNW while they were running north off CA.

My gut, based on poor information, believes that if they had run off--perhaps with warps or a drogue--they would have been scared but fine. But they did not have a storm plan or they would have stayed in harbor. My only close call was with a lee shore, and it was my own damn fault running too close to shore (a very large thunderstorm actually turned around and went west and caught me near shore in a Stiletto--very strange occurance).

[jak430]

I am still waiting to hear the Captains version of what happened to the PDQ32. She was heading south to the Bay area and left Oregon in a gale warning.
Here is another capsize story of a 108' cat that flipped off the coast of France. How does a boat that heavy capsize in a gust when the apparent winds were only 15 knots?
http://www.latitude38.com/lectronic/lec ... 498#Story2
John & Regina
'DreamCatcher'
PDQ32

[thinwater]

That is NOT a cruising boat; that's an Extreme 40 on steroids. Flipping in 15 knots (true, I think) is very possible.

http://yachtpals.com/catamaran-sailing-photo

Looks fun, though, if your not paying the bills.