Bilge pump and switch reliability

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amytom
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Bilge pump and switch reliability

Post by amytom »

PDQ sold my 32 (#9) with only the one whale pump with the y valve selecting between either of the two hulls.

A PO added a 500 gph pump in each hull and one at the bottom of the starboard bow by the head through hulls.

I recently re-bedded my port windows due to leaks and also found a failure in both the shower and A/C condensate sump boxes. These failures left quite a bit of water in both bilges. I found the switches weren't reliably turning the pumps on but the pumps worked when I manually actuated the switches.

Also, the steering compartments often fill with saltwater when off shore as any large seas push water up through the top of the rudder post tubes.

I plan to add two new pumps to the steering compartments, new switches to the hulls, and repair both sump boxes.

Any recommendations on which pumps and switches to install? I've looked at WM and some of the new "automatic" pumps won't even fit in the bilges.

Tom
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thinwater
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Re: Bilge pump and switch reliability

Post by thinwater »

I like simplicity. I'm not sure I would install any pumps, and I'm possitive I would NOT go auto. An auto pump can kill your battery unless you are keeping your eye on the run time. The only reason I might want a pump--a big one--is if I had a problem, and then I would rather it was large (perhaps 1500 gph), manual, and portable with long cables.

I understand about the rudder tube leakage. A few cups a few times a year. I would stick with hand-bailing. If it is leaking more than that, there is a crack and I would waste battery trying to keep it down.

All other leak sources are fixable. There sould be NO regular water accumulation. I have not pumped water from the hulls (not counting the stearing tube area) in years. If you are getting water in the hulls, it is repairable.

I would suggest a good hand pump. Much more flexible, pumps closer to the floor. Extend the hose to about 15 feet.
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amytom
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Re: Bilge pump and switch reliability

Post by amytom »

Thanks Drew,

I normally lean towards the KISS mentality as well; in this case I might drift off though. The pumps in the hulls and the bow have worked fine and the switches seem to only fail off or maybe they are just designed for a higher level of water than I have.

For the hull I now agree that the pumps and switches I have are adequate as long as I fix the shower and condensate sumps.

The steering compartments do fill up with salt water though. During our rudder repair we verified both hulls and tubes are intact by filling the areas with water while the boat was hauled. Neither side showed any traces of leaking over extended time (24 hours). And with the boat in the water sailing the ICW and dockside the compartments stay dry. Once I hit the ocean in any waves they fill up over a day or so. The rudders don't have any slop in their motion the water just pushes up through the tubes.

I still want to put pumps in the steering compartments. I'd like them to be automatic but I'm learning that the new non-mercury switches are less than reliable. Also, the load measuring pumps continuously cycle themselves on and off. Is there a reliable switch on the market? Maybe this is a market to get in to?

Tom
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thinwater
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Re: Bilge pump and switch reliability

Post by thinwater »

Regarding water in the steering compartments:
I get NO water in the port side, ever. I get only fresh water in the starboard side, and it correlates to rainfall. The lockers leak just a bit and the boat must lean just 1/8-inch to starboard. So, it is interesting that the source is completely different. If the compartments are filling up from seawater, there is something very unusual in play. I'd ask James.

Regarding the switches:
Electric pumps can only function if there is a finite amount of water present, generally 2 1-2 inches, and 3-inches would not be out-of-spec. What do you want the trigger height of the float to be?
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amytom
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Re: Bilge pump and switch reliability

Post by amytom »

Maybe we get more water in the steering compartments because whenever we're in the ocean it's a transit. Transiting to the Keys with 8 people on board the boat is sitting quite heavy. :wink:


Taking a closer look at all the switches I could find they all seem to be right at 2" to turn on and 3/4" to turn off. It is what it is I guess. Right now I'm looking at the Ultima Bilge Pump Switch from Defender. Not mechanical, and non-cycling.

Thanks

Tom
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thinwater
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Re: Bilge pump and switch reliability

Post by thinwater »

Regarding the steering compartment:
No, that's probably not it. I sail in the ocean as well, sometimes in big waves. Never saltwater. Not 8 people, but 2 weeks in supplies. Ask ZTC.

Regarding switches:
You don't want the pump running when it is not covered with water; it will overheat and cook the seal. While there are switches that work on lower levels (conductivity sensors), I wouldn't use them with that sort of pump. It would have to be one that can run dry or that is located remotely.

________________________________________

I replaced my sanitation hoses today. In the process some "stuff" dropped into the fornt bilge and I had to clean it out. I lower a hose on low spray and pumped with a 30-inch hand pump. Only took a few minutes and I never got wet . Easy. An electric pump would have clogged, another factor to consider in some locations.

I'm not trying to be negative, but the PDQ doesn't lend itself to bilge pumps, because it doesn't realy have bilges.
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thinwater
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Aridbilge--would work, but $$$

Post by thinwater »

I saw this at the Annapolis boat show yesterday. Basically a vacuum pump system designed to pull very low. Kinna pricy ($1500?). Could something be rigged-upo cheaper? Sure, if you could find a suitable vacuum pump. Basically, each pickup is designed to be pulled by a vacuum pump into a resevoir, and then discharged from there. There rest is automation and whistles.

Looked like it would work to me, and I have enginered comercial-size systems used for big tank cleaning.

http://www.aridbilge.com/Series_2_Specifications.html
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eepstein
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Re: Bilge pump and switch reliability

Post by eepstein »

We had a great deal of water leakage into the boat, and all the water tight compartments had water in them. After a lot of searching, here is what we found:

Water in starboard bilge was via the aft locker (above the holding tank) where water overflows the gutter when its clogged, falls to the bottom of the locker, and leaks slowly in around the holding tank hose that goes thru the floor. The water then builds up behind the shower, and when the boat rocks overflows at odd times into the bilge -sometimes days after it had last rained.

Water in the water tight compartments. James found the cause. On each one, it was leaking around old inspection port seals.

As for bilge pumps, James recommended and installed two high capacity pumps that bypass the breaker panel and have separate fuses. He recommended and installed closed cage float switches that reduce the risk of accidental turn on or clogging. I can get the models off of them if you'd like.

Hope this is useful.

Eric
Eric & Bonnie Epstein
s/v Desert Star, PDQ36, Hull 49
Annapolis, MD
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