air conditioning

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bg5w
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air conditioning

Post by bg5w »

I've asked the question in the recent past about portable vs. installed air conditioners - but my wife decided she wants the whole boat colled while at the dock. Specific to the 32, where is the best location? I've looked to ways to snake a 4" hose for ducting bwtween the hulls, and cannot figure a way. Can it be done with 1 unit? Thanks,
Bob Gruber
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thinwater
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Re: air conditioning

Post by thinwater »

We have a cruise-n-carry and I hate it for a number of reasons:
* leaks rainwater
* blocks vision
* snags sheets
* loud (not a bad problem)
* poor cold distribution
When it breaks, I will install.

However, it does cool the boat, it will cool the bedrooms if a fan is placed in each doorway, and a smallish fan will do. If I can't get a duct back there I will add ducts in galley and nav areas near the floor and install a pair of swing-out fans to move the air. Really, the air movement is very important and I doubt an uninsulated 4-inch duct alone will really do the job; perhaps, in combination with the cabin fan.
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amytom
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Re: air conditioning

Post by amytom »

We have a 20k btu unit under the starboard bunk. 2" duct to the head, 4" duct to each cabin, and two 2" ducts to the back wall of the salon. Cools the cabins nicely and takes the bite off the heat in the salon.

If I were to do it again I would put two 16k units in. One under the rear step in the cockpit blowing into the cabins and one under the setee in the salon. Using a Honda 2000 generator you could power either one easily.

However you decide to do it, keep in mind the balance between the outlets and keep the runs to a minimum.
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Re: air conditioning

Post by amytom »

We have a 20k btu unit under the starboard bunk. 2" duct to the head, 4" duct to each cabin, and two 2" ducts to the back wall of the salon. Cools the cabins nicely and takes the bite off the heat in the salon.

If I were to do it again I would put two 16k units in. One under the rear step in the cockpit blowing into the cabins and one under the setee in the salon. Using a Honda 2000 generator you could power either one easily.

However you decide to do it, keep in mind the balance between the outlets and keep the runs to a minimum.
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eepstein
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Re: air conditioning

Post by eepstein »

We have a 12000 BTU Climma AC/Heater (http://www.veco-na.com/compactboats25to ... units.html). It wasn't cheap, but it works great, has a remote control, and can be powered by a Honda 2000 generator. We keep our boat on a mooring ball and have the generator as our only power. We have friends with larger AC units in their boats, and they can use a Honda 2000 to power them. To us, a hot night anywhere is still a hot night. Hope this helps.
Eric & Bonnie Epstein
s/v Desert Star, PDQ36, Hull 49
Annapolis, MD
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Re: air conditioning

Post by bg5w »

Thanks for the advise. For those that use only one unit, where is it located, and how is the ducting run? I also assume all of these are water cooled?

Thanks,
Bob Gruber
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eepstein
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Re: air conditioning

Post by eepstein »

Here is a sketch if the layout I used. I did end up paying a place to do it, as it was looking like a lot of work. The boat had a previous AC unit, but the old duct work was weak, so we put in a new Manifold and ducts, all new hoses, new electric, new power plug, new thruhull, new pump, new pan, new drain hose, etc. In the end, the only things that were from the old AC were the water filter and vent covers. Some of it may have been reusable, but once its all back together, its a bear to fix a leak from an old part that rotted out. I also splurged for a stainless steel pan. It was expensive, but I had a custom made on that fit perfect, drained well and wont rust. Hope that helps.
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Eric & Bonnie Epstein
s/v Desert Star, PDQ36, Hull 49
Annapolis, MD
bg5w
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Re: air conditioning

Post by bg5w »

Eric,

Thanks for the schematic. Unfortunately, the same plan will not work for a 32.

Bob Gruber
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amytom
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Re: air conditioning

Post by amytom »

I don't have a fancy diagram but let me try to explain my setup.

Unit mounted under strbd bunk.
3"duct run up behind the cabinet and power entry area to a faceplate in the salon.
2" duct run through the bilge to the head then up behind medicine cabinet to a faceplate there.
4" duct ran aft to the steering area under the storage area deck boards with faceplate on aft bulkhead in each cabin and a 2" tee off to the salon aft bulkhead on the port side.


Would I do it this way again? No


I would mount a 16K unit in the cockpit aft step with a duct to each cabin then another unit under the forward seat of the salon with a duct to the galley, the head, and two to the salon. On shore power you run both units, on the Honda 2K you run either one depending on time of day.

The boat is hard to cool down due to the sun hitting such a large area of the deck; I'm looking into making a large tarp to shade the area forward of the bimini towards the tramp area. Hopefully this will help.

Tom
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Re: air conditioning

Post by bg5w »

tom,

Thanks for that advise. I was trying to figure out a way to do it with only one unit, but it appears two units would be better. I assume in both cases, the discharge water would go overboard, and not into the bilges? Would you use one pump for cooling water for both units?
Bob
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Re: air conditioning

Post by amytom »

I would use two pumps, each with their own underwater throughhull.

The salon unit I would add a throughhull near the head plumbing (different years had different configurations) and the other I would add inside the aft steering compartment. This would keep all underwater points of failure inside the crash compartments and reduce the risk of flooding the hulls.

The cooling water drains would be kept short and straight overboard through the bridgedeck and the condensate would be gravity fed through the bridgedeck as well.

Not a simple install as the boat would have to be hauled to put in the new throughulls.

Also, remember that the hull under the waterline is solid glass while the bridgedeck area is cored, you will need to cut oversize holes, fill in with thickened epoxy and recut the proper size holes to seal the core and prevent it from rotting. Ask for help if you've never done it before.

Tom
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Re: air conditioning

Post by bg5w »

Thanks for all of the advise Tom. Now that we're into fall, it might be a good spring project.

Bob
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maxicrom
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Re: air conditioning

Post by maxicrom »

We have a 1991' PDQ 36 with a 16,000 BTU Mermaid AC\Heat (reverse cycle) in the summer we use a combination of white poly tarps to shade most of the cabin top and get some airflow across the deck. Startup on this unit is about 14-16A, running it is 6-9A load - the positive is that we have kept the boat to under 30A loads and rarely use the reverse cycle.

We keep II the Max docked in Washington DC, so we get the 100+ degree days in July and August with 90+ humidity. The 16,000 keeps the boat at about 80 on those days, dropping to the 70's after the sun goes down. The Altair has less interior so a 16,000 unit may work well for you, we only have a Honda 1000 genset so we don't run the AC away from the dock.

A couple of tips we've found helpful:

- I always change out my our main power line dock connection to a 50A plug (only using one leg). Most dock power pedastals provide a better power supply through the 50A connection and it leaves the 30A if you need power on the dock. (We keep a 30A cable as well in case a marina doesn't have 50A service).

- eHeat panels: We rarely run the reverse cycle, In the winter we run 5 eHeat panels (3 4A units and 2 6A units) the 2 large in the forward cabins, 1 mounted on the wall near the companionway, 2 in the aft cabins (head and pilot bunk). The 2 aft are mounted on the outer walls, the fwd ones are mounted on plywood and just lean against the outer hull. It maintains the temp in the 60's when it is 20 outside - during the day. When we get home we kick on the propane Cozy Cabin heater to take the chill off. In marina's people really max out the circuits in the winter with space heaters and keeping your load low really helps avoid fires from over taxed power cords. www.eheat.com We have the older model panels that don't have the cover on them - they work fine.

- By running our boat on the 50A circuit in the winter we can run the ice eater on the 30A and still keep everything safe.

Hope this is helpful info...
Mike & Linda
S/V II the Max
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