PDQ32+

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SailorC
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Re: PDQ32+

Postby SailorC » Sat May 19, 2018 1:51 pm

Tom, thanks for sharing all that. $1500 sounds reasonable and money well spent. Do you have a blog, I'd love to read about and see the pictures of the difference in wake, capacity, speeds and whatnot?

Drew and Tom, just wondering, why did you decide on 2'? Personally, we have talked about a 3' add on so I'm curious to know why you felt two feet was about right.

I have enjoyed reading this cruisers blog. He did maybe a 4' extension to his 33' Seawind? Of course the Seawind has a higher beam to length ratio, so perhaps that's why you both went with 2'?
http://www.katiekat.net/Cruise/KatieKat2007F.html

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thinwater
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Re: PDQ32+

Postby thinwater » Sat May 19, 2018 10:43 pm

Some of the thought process:
http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/2013/05/better-boarding-extended-transoms.html
http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/2013/08/extended-transoms-process.html

First, 2' seemed like enough to me. The PDQ 32 if kept light (mine was) is not a transom-dragger, not at rest. 2' is enough room for boarding and enough to clean up the wake. The PDQ36s, for example, are much heavier in the tail and need longer extensions.

Second, there is always the do-no-harm caveat. Extra length could complicate docking. Any time you extend the transom, in effect you move the rudder and you can change the balance in a negative way. You add weight. Longer extensions might increase the tendency to catch waves in a following sea (though not if you sail fast).

That said, 30" would be fine if you like the look. But any longer than that would leave the transom comically high out of the water and would probably start to become a performance negative. I'm pretty sure of that. Sometimes less is more, and I am a firm believer in small but well thought out tweaks. My PDQ was tweaked quite a bit, but the changes were purposefully subtle and almost hard to see. I believe that was key to making her fast and weatherly. The fundamental design and construction is VERY GOOD and big changes could easily be negative.

If you want to go longer, build a mock-up
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SailorC
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Re: PDQ32+

Postby SailorC » Sun May 20, 2018 12:44 pm

Thanks for the links. I saw them about 4 years ago when doing hull extension research and have been impressed with your work and the rest of your blog. For years my husband has been scribbling up cat drawings thinking one day he may build his own. Figuring in the homebuilt cat:divorce ratio being high we decided on finding one to modify to suit our needs and wants instead.
The 32 fits the bill.

We have leaned towards your extension style vs the Seawind for the reasons you brought out and from our experience with a custom open transom on a big mono. Access for all and on both sides has been very useful either with provision runs for loading/unloading items from the dinghy to docking stern-to and more.

It's funny too you mention 30"'s because he said 2' and I 3' so in the middle is where we are at thus far.

One of the primary reasons for the extension is to help support an arch. I know, I know, they are ugly and they add additional weight to the stern.... but hence the extensions. We have a specific item we cannot go without that needs the arch and we intend to keep the boat light with just us two adults.

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Re: PDQ32+

Postby amytom » Sun May 20, 2018 6:01 pm

We added the arch before the extensions and it worked out well. We went with Atlantic Arch bolt in kit.

The two feet also matched the flow of the hull. I wanted to keep the flow the same all the way back and 2’ was where it almost matched the deck height of the bottom step. I still wanted a small vertical component at the very back too. 3’ could work too just adjust the lines.

Don’t forget to add to the back of the keels and the inner Genoa tracks too. The whole package is a winner.

SailorC
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Re: PDQ32+

Postby SailorC » Sun May 20, 2018 8:40 pm

Thanks for sharing! You sound pretty happy with yours. Good to hear both of you believe 3' would be okay.
Oh and yes, I think the keel mod would be first on the list since it is not as big of a job as the transom extensions plus the windward improvements sound great.

Honestly, it does look to be a pretty time consuming job, the transom ext., so we're still not totally sold on it. However, we all know weight is a cats nemesis, particularly at the ends, so arches don't help there.

Any clue how much weight your arch added?
Once you added the extensions did you feel like they compensated for the add'l weight of the arch or not much of a difference?

Thanks for the recommendation. The arch we would go with wouldn't angle back but straight up and down since it's for a hammock chair. Best, most comfortable (to me and anyone who's tried mine) seat onboard at anchor or underway. When sailing it's as if you are floating, a pretty amazing sensation.

amytom wrote:We added the arch before the extensions and it worked out well. We went with Atlantic Arch bolt in kit.

The two feet also matched the flow of the hull. I wanted to keep the flow the same all the way back and 2’ was where it almost matched the deck height of the bottom step. I still wanted a small vertical component at the very back too. 3’ could work too just adjust the lines.

Don’t forget to add to the back of the keels and the inner Genoa tracks too. The whole package is a winner.

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Re: PDQ32+

Postby Jwood1 » Tue May 29, 2018 2:26 pm

Amytom

I am thinking of adding an arch to my 32. It currently has a wind gen on a pole and a solar panel just above the davits. Unfortunately, the PO used galvanized steel pipe for the pole and painted it. The paint is peeling and I'm sure it weighs a ton. I'm thinking of removing the pole and putting the wind gen and a new radar dome on top of the arch with the solar panel in the middle. I know, shadows could be a problem, but you have the same shadow problem on the bimini top as well. I checked out the arches on Atlantic Towers and they look good. They even have a specific one listed for the PDQ 32!

My questions are:
1. do you know how much the arch weighs? I'm thinking the aluminum arch may weigh less than the current steel pole that the wind gen is mounted on.
2. Are you happy with the arch, anything you would do differently?
3. do you have any pictures of the arch showing how it is mounted to the deck?

Thanks
Jerry
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Punta Gorda, FL

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amytom
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Re: PDQ32+

Postby amytom » Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:02 am

Check out the Atlantic towers website for the weight and pictures of the mounting hardware.
If you search my posts on this forum you’ll find pictures of our install.
We still have the aft rail in place but are working towards getting rid of it (as soon as we figure out where to put dinghy engine). Will be including a fabric bench seat across the arch.
For mounting accessories Atlantic towers has quite a few options for radars, wind gems etc... we just mounted the dinghy lift, stern light, and 300w solar. (Also have another 400w on the bimini).
I like the radar on the mast just above the spreaders. I’ve tried the wind gens (multiple air x’s and a Kiss) and wasn’t very impressed. In FL I can get 30A off of solar on a mostly cloudy day. I removed the wind gen pole and will be seeing how we do on an upcoming 2 week trip. If we need extra power we’ll have the Honda suitcase.

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Re: PDQ32+

Postby amytom » Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:16 pm

Post trip update-

Had our first extended trip on the boat since the upgrades. Wow! what a difference. Sailed from Melbourne to Key Largo and back with some diving and playing in the keys while down there.

Solar - adding the new panels on the arch made it so in a week of sailing with 6 people on board all charging phones and ipads and watching TV plus the fridge, freezer, fans, autopilot, etc... Didn't fire up the Honda suitcase once on the whole trip. No wind generator either, that was pulled last year.

Cockpit drainage and clamshells - we used to always have a bit of standing water in the front corners of the cockpit and waves would shoot water past the rubber flappers on the rear drains. We added two small drains on the front and homemade clamshells over the drains, cockpit stayed completely dry the whole trip.

Spinnaker - homemade from sailrite kit. An incredible sail. In 10kts quartering wind we maintained 8 kts boat speed. That is while loaded down with 6 "adults" packed for a week including dive gear and tanks. We did blow the halyard (more than 10 years old) on the way down to the Keys and I was surprised to see how gentle the sail just floated to the water and stayed to the side not getting tangled at all. New halyard and we were booking again. The return trip in the gulf stream we saw 15 kts speed over ground at one point as a squall was forming (probably 3kts of that was gulf stream current). Leeward bow was drooping and the sterns were lifting so we packed it up and flew the genoa the rest of that night.

Keel extensions - much better balanced! with the spinnaker up on moderate winds the helm was almost perfectly balanced just a slight tendency to weather which is what I prefer.

Hull extensions - since we were loaded down so far the top of the extensions did stay wet from waves washing over continuously. Speed was higher but not sure how much of that was from the hull extensions. Made a nice place to sit with your feet in the water while sailing, just let someone know you're down there in case you fall in. For the hobby horsing it did reduce the effect mostly on the bow up swing. the bow down swing was the same as before.


Things that didn't go well -

Starboard engine may have finally met it's end, 20 years old and third PDQ its been on.
The fridge doesn't quite keep up, warms up with any open door activity.
As kids turn into adults they don't want to spend as much time with Dad as they used to unless they need help.

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thinwater
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Re: PDQ32+

Postby thinwater » Fri Jul 06, 2018 3:24 pm

^^ That is about the same as my impression on the mods.

* Keel extensions. To me, the big help was smooth tacking, less risk of irons, and good speed through the tack. Also pointing higher.

* Transom extensions. Not as time consuming as it might seem. Really only two full days of work, plus some 1- to 3-hour days fairing and painting. The speed improvement is probably no more than a few tenths, but the down-pitch is less and the space is useful and fun.

* Chute and genoa. It's the difference between a motor sailor and a real sailboat. Don't forget the inside tracks for the genoa and the adjustable bridle for the chute.

---

Now I have an F-24 and the mods continue. I can't help myself. But as with the PDQ, the goal should always be changes that are subtle and effective, though sometimes it sucks that only you can see them. If they look factory, you did it right.
* Rudder upgrade and fence. It ventilated over 15 knots.
* Folding bow sprit. Easier to remove the reacher.
* Mini-hard top.
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http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/2017/ ... store.html
"Keeping a Cruising Boat for Peanuts"
"Singlehanded Sailing for the Coastal Sailor"
"Faster Cruising for the Coastal Sailor"


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