Bowsprit

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Smj
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Bowsprit

Post by Smj »

Hi, I'm new to the forum but seriously looking at buying a PDQ 36. I see there's been a few PDQ's with bowsprit and screecher installed, something I would be interested in. The later year 36's seem to have aluminum front cross beams while the earlier models composite. What was the reason for changing to the aluminum crossbeam? I understand with the aluminum cross beam it is imperative to install a strut between the cross beam and bridgedeck to handle the compression loads of the bowsprit, but the easier models seem to have a composite strut already in place between the beam and bridgedeck. Would the composite cross beam and composite strut take the loads of a bowsprit and screecher with no extra strengthening?
Thanks, AJ
Dan White
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Re: Bowsprit

Post by Dan White »

Hi AJ
I have hull # 96 and we ordered it with a bowsprit and screecher. It does have the aluminum cross beam, but I do not know when or why -- or even if -- that was a change from earlier editions.
The anchorage of the sprit comes all the way back to aft of the trampolines, so the compression load is resisted by the main part of the boat. We have never noticed any problem with this arrangement.
I highly recommend the sprit/screecher, unless you have an asymmetrical spinnaker. I had the latter on a prior cat and much prefer the former. Both would be overkill.
Smj
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Re: Bowsprit

Post by Smj »

Thanks Dan,
We have owned two Seawind 1000's, both with bowsprit and screecher and it made a huge difference in the lighter winds. We also put stern extensions on them, which I hear has some benefits on the PDQ 36 as well. I'm still interested in hearing if the composite beam and strut on the older PDQ's would be strong enough to support a bowsprit.
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thinwater
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Re: Bowsprit

Post by thinwater »

Some things to consider. I've had sprits and reachers and a number of chutes on a number of boats. It's complicated.

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How deep (apparent wind) does the screacher pull well? A chute can do very well down to 160 with the tack to windward and the sheet eased to allow rotation to windward. I think it comes down to whether you have need to sail very deep. Because I sail on a long bay (Chesapeake) I see frequent windward/leeward work and less reaching. I have always found that I use a chute more than a reacher.

What constitutes light air? Above 10 knots plain sail is probably better for most of us on many courses, and below 6 knots we probably motor, at least if we have a destination. Of course, I can say much of the same about chutes. But the point is nothing will make a cruising cat fly in 4 knots of wind.

Though folks talk of carrying the reacher to windward, I've yet to see a reacher actually add VMG to windward on a cat; the lift to drag is simply too poor, and they are cut full for reaching. A large jib is faster VMG every time. It also depends on the genoa size. I have a masthead 150% genoa; if I had a smaller jib that would change things some, but not to windward.

I would like to hear about the effect of keeping the reacher hoisted upwind. If it is only used occationally but adds drag and mass always that must be considered. For example, in the windy season (winter) it might as well go home.

Does the sprit add to docking fees? It does some places.

Do the water stays add much drag? Does the sprit bury in waves in certain conditions? What is the all-in weight addition, including weight aloft? Any affect on pitching?

Is the tramps still useable for lounging (some block this)?


Just stuff to consider. It's complicated.
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Smj
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Re: Bowsprit

Post by Smj »

Our only experience with bowsprits and screechers were on our two Seawinds. Both the screecher and stern extensions transformed the Seawind 1000 from an ok sailor into a good performance cat. We probably used the screecher 60% of the time and it was worth it's weight in gold. One of the differences between the PDQ and Seawind is the size of the jib, the PDQ's being much larger. I guess with that in mind the screecher probably wouldn't ad as much performance as it did with the Seawind. If we purchase a PDQ 36 we will definetly sail the boat stock for awhile before doing any mods. Now back to the composite forward beam......I'm sure Page83 had a composite beam, any input Sandy?
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thinwater
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Re: Bowsprit

Post by thinwater »

^^ I could say something very similar, actually. With the stock self-tacking jib and length, the PDQ 32 is at best acceptable up wind and at worst slow. If the waves slow the boat, too much helm is needed and leeway goes up. With the genoa (PO purchased that and I added the inside leads) and extended transoms she is a performance boat, at least compared to anything I've seen with a dingy on davits!

If I could not add a genoa (fractional rig) then a screacher fills a part of that need. Note that when I use the genoa up-wind I roll at in to 120% to keep it off the shrouds and spreader. When I replace the genoa I will be considering going to 120% and adding a reacher. I have not used the self-tacker in several years.

With the PDQs there is an additional factor; the keel is too far forward, with the COE under the mast. Good for balance on land, but not for balance under sail. This is perhaps the major reason that PDQs really benefit from sail area forward. Reefing the main before (or at least with) the genoa also makes sense. With the self tacker, 2 reefs are need before reefing the jib, at which time a 3rd reef is needed for balance.

http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/2010/10/balance.html
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Kitehawaii
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Re: Bowsprit

Post by Kitehawaii »

I just installed a bowsprit on PDQ 36 Hull #25. I had it engineered by Colligo Marine at the same time I was converting the whole boat to synthetic rigging.

We used a 4' Piece of 2" x 6" Rectangular Stainless Steel to support the sprit and the double as the attachment point for the continuous Furler and safety stay.

It also has a dolphin striker I made of carbon fiber and windsurfing mast.

Cost for fabrication $1500 not including dolphin striker or martingale holder.

Aloha,
s/v Malolo
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New PDQ 36 Bowsprit
Smj
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Re: Bowsprit

Post by Smj »

Thanks Kitehawaii, that looks like a really nice setup. So Colligo thought the fiberglass tube between the bridgedeck and forward crossbeam would handle the compression loads of the bowsprit? If so that's good news. I didn't think of the uplift forces on the forward beam and the possible need for a seagull striker. I was thinking that the stays from the lower portion of the bows to the end of the sprit would handle the uplift load but I may be way of. Thanks again.
Kitehawaii
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Re: Bowsprit

Post by Kitehawaii »

Bear in mind we are doing sea trails soon. Will post results.
Smj
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Re: Bowsprit

Post by Smj »

We will be on the east coast of Florida in a few weeks. Any chance we could take a look at your bowsprit setup?
Kitehawaii
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Re: Bowsprit

Post by Kitehawaii »

You are welcome to come to Melbourne to take a look. I'll work on getting some better photos posted this week. Tons of projects getting boat ready with all new rigging, mast etc. It's best to phone me. PM for contact info.
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