Thelma and Louise Up To No Good

Post here for issues with outboard engines (i.e Yamaha 9.9) on PDQ yachts
Marc Gershel
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Re: Thelma and Louise Up To No Good

Postby Marc Gershel » Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:01 am

Sorry for chiming in so late, but I noticed in your original post you said that you "partially" disassembled the carb. I went partially nuts once when cleaning my carb, because I neglected one hard to reach area. Search out and remove every screw, especially the one with the rubber cap.
Hope that's all it is.
Marc

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Re: Thelma and Louise Up To No Good

Postby NautiBits » Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:12 pm

Hi Marc,

Welcome to the party! It's never too late. After ordering a new spring and retaining clip for the Number One Cylinder exhaust valve from Boats.net, I disassembled the other carb. I bravely popped that little rubber plug off and found more stuff to clean hidden behind it. The main jet was a bit stubborn on this carb, so I'll get it next time. My screwdrivers were not perfect enough to impart the needed torsional pressure to remove the little brass jet. I was satisfied that all orifices were junk free.

Meanwhile, the saga continues!

Here is Louise locked to the chocks for her insolence!

06 T8PXR on Horse small.jpg
She's not really bad, just not feeling well!


Here is the guilty culprit!

06 T8PXR Valve Cover Removed Cyl 1 Exhaust Spring Wrapped Around Rocker Arm small.jpg
Not too scary!


The number one cylinder exhaust spring is wrapped around the rocker arm. I found a couple of other pieces of it elsewhere in the valve train area. You can see the spring retainer toward the bottom. The little cotter clip must have escaped down the oil channel into the oil pan. So, for $6 in parts and $7 in shipping, I could be back in business. Oh, and a little elbow grease. And, (Thanks Tom!) cherished guidance and confidence building from the forum!
Joe & Deb
s/v Cat's Meow
2000 Classic 36086

amytom
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Re: Thelma and Louise Up To No Good

Postby amytom » Sat Feb 01, 2014 9:55 am

Any follow up on this one?

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Re: Thelma and Louise Up To No Good

Postby NautiBits » Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:30 am

On the hunt for a valve spring depressor...
Joe & Deb
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Re: Thelma and Louise Up To No Good

Postby amytom » Sat Feb 01, 2014 12:09 pm

Harbor Freight is your friend.

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Re: Thelma and Louise Up To No Good

Postby Page 83 » Sun Feb 02, 2014 1:40 am

Always start troubleshooting recently run outboards with fresh fuel in a clean tank and fuel line. Old fuel is lumpy. Cleaning up an older plastic tank and fuel line is just enough trouble to justify buying new. Dunk the carb body in a one gallon carb cleaner that comes with a lift out basket. Amber colored jello is the culprit.

Don't take a compression tester for gospel unless you have staked the valves and seen the needles bounce.
Sandy Daugherty "Page 83" PDQ 36026

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Re: Thelma and Louise Up To No Good

Postby NautiBits » Sun Feb 02, 2014 10:04 am

Morning all!

Good news and bad news.

First the bad news. No compression on number one. I will try again this morning. Perhaps staking the valve will help. But, that in itself can be good news because I will learn about the complete removal of the head and maybe the pistons too! Yippee!

The other good news was I was able to nuance the valve spring into position beneath its retainer and cotter without a spring compression tool. I say nuanced because the Admiral's delicate touch was used to keep the valve in position while I used a parallel screwdriver technique to press the retainer down enough to slide the cotter back in place. I could have used the rope technique to hold the valve in place,but the Admiral's fingers were faster and now she has something to amaze the rest of the Admiralty with.

The Harbor Freight spring compressor will not work as it spreads the caliper that grabs the spring apart as the screw presses the retainer down, which causes the caliper to release the spring. Another spring compressor I borrowed from AutoZone did not work because it is made for a slightly larger retainer (automotive engines). I may have had success with that device if I had adjusted the device with a hammer...but, not my tool...

Maybe a crowfoot would work as a spring depressor?

I did drop the carbs in the gallon vat of cleaner with favorable results, I think. I'm a little concerned with the effect of the cleaner on the choke linkage (bearing surface?) and the smooth, white plastic thingy embedded in the valve body.

The portable tanks I have are brand new, as are the lines. However, it is highly likely that aged jello was part of the problem. The maintenance history is unknown due to the PO's passing. However, it does not appear that high-level, quality, routine, or preventative maintenance was part of this boat's last few years.

Great learning lab for me though :P

Thanks all!

Joe Mc
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Re: Thelma and Louise Up To No Good

Postby Page 83 » Sun Feb 02, 2014 12:14 pm

Well done! I'll defer to Thinwater about carb cleaners and non-metallic parts.
Sandy Daugherty "Page 83" PDQ 36026

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Re: Thelma and Louise Up To No Good

Postby amytom » Mon Feb 03, 2014 1:33 am

For the carb cleaners I always disassemble all but the plastic bits with the spring going to the accelerator pump on the bottom. (Does the new engine even have this?). Any plastic or seal material will likely fail after a dunking in the carb cleaner bucket.

Also use the compressed can of carb cleaner through the small passages afterwards to get the stubborn stuff out.

For the exact effects on the different plastics Thinwater is our resident chemist / engineer.

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Re: Thelma and Louise Up To No Good

Postby NautiBits » Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:13 am

I'll take the carb apart again this week and take a pic and post it.

Sandy!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

You are the only one I know of who has the T8s. Do you have a service manual? I'm assuming the process is similar for the 9.9s, but I'm curious.

The engines are 2006 T8PXR and maybe an 2002. The sticker is gone on the 2002. The sticker was hanging on by a corner on the 2006. I took it off and zip-locked it. The model number does not match the info given me by the broker. So, I've no idea about the 2002 model number. Plus, if it is the one in the broker info, it is from Belize and has non-US model numbers anyway. Ugh! It looks very similar except to the 2006 except it has the auto choke unit(not connected!).

Tom, I know you've taken these engines apart. Send your lessons learned, please!

I figure I'll need gaskets (gasket kit #1??), and probably an exhaust valve and seal. Do the head bolts get replaced? What else is prudent while in that far? I figure valve lapping makes sense. Would it be convenient to yank the pistons and dress them up a bit?

Thanks for the help folks.

Joe Mc
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Re: Thelma and Louise Up To No Good

Postby amytom » Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:40 am

I've only taken apart the old style 9.9's with the throttle/shift cables both attached inside the cowling.

For those you start by pulling the engine off the rest by removing all the bolts coming from underneath the main pan.

After the engine has been pulled (or before) remove the carb and the timing belt while noting the orientation of the cam relative to the crankshaft pulley. (Should be dots to line up)

Then pull the head and intake manifold as one. You will need a new head gasket and pan gasket.

Since your going in that far, yes do order a new valve and valve seal. Before ordering any parts though do a good visual on the valve seat and test the valve guide by comparing with the others, is it loose? Any problems with the head might be curable at a machine shop.

For the pistons, check the top of the piston if intact without too much carbon build up then check the cylinder walls with the piston all the way down check for scratches and grooves in the wall also check the very top of the cylinder for a wear ring. Any problems here and I would condemn the engine.

Post pictures here as you go along. Lots of smart people willing to lend advice but add up the costs, when does it start making more sense to get a new engine and sleep peacefully? The answer is different for all of us.

Tom

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Re: Thelma and Louise Up To No Good

Postby NautiBits » Sat Feb 15, 2014 9:31 pm

Here we go!!

I can see the cylinder one exhaust valve is bent. I forgot to check the cylinder walls while I had light. Tomorrow!!

What is the procedure for replacing the valve guides and seals?

Do the head bolts need replacing too?

Enjoy the pix:

Timing Belt removed prior to Head Removal Small.jpg
So far so good!


Carb Removed and Auto Choke Small.jpg
That went smoothly too!


Top of Pistons Small.jpg
Notice the clean spot where the valve slammed into the piston a few times.
Joe & Deb
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Re: Thelma and Louise Up To No Good

Postby NautiBits » Sat Feb 15, 2014 9:38 pm

And some more for the gearheads out there!

Head Removed Small.jpg
Should I clean the passages with a dremel?


Head Combustion Chamber Small.jpg
Off with her head!


Head Combustion Chamber from Bottom Small.jpg
View from the bottom.


Head Combustion Chamber from Top Small.jpg
View from the top.
Joe & Deb
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amytom
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Re: Thelma and Louise Up To No Good

Postby amytom » Sun Feb 16, 2014 5:50 am

I would use a screw driver to clean the cooling passages as well as cleaning up the heavy carbon build up.

The valve seals ussually just pop off and back on again, should be apparent when you tear the top of the head down.

The valve guides would probably be a machine shop job, they can get them perfectly straight and clean up the valve seats at the same time.

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Re: Thelma and Louise Up To No Good

Postby NautiBits » Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:31 pm

Cleaned up the cylinder and piston heads a bit. You can see where the valve met its demise!

Thanks again Tom!

Cleaned up pistons TDC small.jpg
Looking good!


Cleaned up pistons BDC small.jpg
Shiny!


Cleaned Up Sump small.jpg
Who knew there was a drain in this space? Flows well now.
Joe & Deb
s/v Cat's Meow
2000 Classic 36086


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