Thelma and Louise Up To No Good

Post here for issues with outboard engines (i.e Yamaha 9.9) on PDQ yachts
NautiBits
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Thelma and Louise Up To No Good

Postby NautiBits » Sun Jan 12, 2014 10:46 pm

Howdy Folks!

My outboards, Thelma and Louise, are conspiring to keep me from sailing!! Yesterday was a beautiful, sunny day here in Corpus. The Admiral and I planned on another great sailing experience. I cranked up the engines for about fifteen minutes prior to casting off the lines. I typically put 'em in gear to get the whole gizmo warmed up well. So, pre-flight checklist all in order, off we go. We probably got about 250 yards before the port engine nodded off. The Admiral started getting fussy, so we turned around and started heading back to the dock. I got the cantankerous little bee-otch running again. We turned around again and started heading out. Louise, the port engine, crapped out again!! I choked her and gave her a bit of throttle to keep her going and we turned around to head back to the dock.

Once safely tied up to the dock, I removed her carb and partially disassembled it. I cleaned out the float bowl, ports and jets and dunked it in a can of Berryman's Carb Cleaner. There was plenty of crud in it before cleaning. The main jet was clogged. After about two hours, I dunked it in water and then hosed it down with Gumout Carb cleaner. Then I blasted every orifice with compressed air. The compressed air flowed well everywhere.

I put it all back together and cranked up Louise. She ran smoothly. I went below to make a sandwich for lunch. 'THUD'... sputter.... dead. So, after about fifteen minutes of running smoothly, she died. She was hard to start. At full throttle she would barely limp along and then die. It seemed she would counter-rotate as she stalled.

Is it possible the prop hit something and caused the timing belt to skip? It does seem like it is out of time.

Thelma and Louise are hi-thrust 8s. One is a 2002, and the other 2006. When they die, I will probably go back to the original 9.9s. Meanwhile, I need a service manual, I'm not buying two. I suppose I should get the one for the 2006. Your recommendations...should I get a 9.9 service manual.. for a supplier?

What is the process for swapping out the CDI unit?

I'll be pulling Thelma's carb this week to clean it up. I'll install it on Louise just to make sure it is not the carb.

I am running on portable tanks at the moment and swapped them to make sure it was not the fuel supply. All good there.

Looking forward to your good counsel.

Joe Mc
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thinwater
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Re: Thelma and Louise Up To No Good

Postby thinwater » Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:48 pm

a. Counter rotation. Not unusual when running out (over lean). If it ran smooth for a time it is probably not ignition.

b. Runs for 10 minutes? You didn't mention the fuel filter. A partially clogged filter would do that, as would a clogged anti-sypon valve, although the later would not be the case with the porta-tank. Also suction leaks. Did it run better on the portable tank or the same?

c. Plugs? No, not a match for the symptoms, but somethimes it is several things. Clean or change if they are old. It won't solve the problem, but they're probably due.

d. Is the choke opening correctly? Compare to other engine. Would match some of the sysmptoms. I had one go bad once. Probably easy to swap the actuator, but I don't know the engine well. Will swap with the carb.

e. Any corrosion in the bowl (pits)? The crud could be aluminum oxide from ethanol and salt. Use a corrosion inhibiting additive (they don't all work). Bio-bor EB and Seafoam are good. It's possible you've re-clogged the carb that fast. Yup, been there.
http://www.practical-sailor.com/issues/ ... 855-1.html

f. Hitting something wouldn't do it; the prop would most likely spin on the hub.

For what it's worth, check to see if the tender has a fuel filter (some don't). Add one.

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Re: Thelma and Louise Up To No Good

Postby NautiBits » Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:23 pm

Thanks TW!

a. OK. I'll check the lean/fuel starvation possibility. The carb bowl was full and the the fuel pump seemed to pump quite vigorously.

b. After the initial stalling problem, I cleaned the carb. After I installed it, the engine started up and ran smoothly for about fifteen minutes. This only occurred once. It went from running smoothly, in forward, about mid throttle, to clunk-sputter-stall. It did run the same on both portable tanks. Neither engine performance changed. The starboard engine, Thelma, ran fine, Louise would start at WOT but only sputtered for a few revs before quitting.

c. The plugs are only months old with barely three dozen hours on them. I'll change them though.

d. Louise has the auto choke on her, but the marine professional dropped the connecting hardware into the drink getting ready for the sea trial. I've heard they are problematic anyway. The manual choke works fine. I'll swap the carbs later this week.

e. I did not notice any pitting, but I wasn't looking for it either. I'll check again. I'll get some treatment too. Can you use Stabil with the other additives? I've read it is good to use Stabil with every tank.

f. Thanks. The prop looks fine, no damage whatsoever.

No tender yet. Will install the filter though. I'm thinking I should get the same engine (regular shaft) for the tender. I'm thinking the troubleshooting will be simpler with three of the same engine.

Joe Mc
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Re: Thelma and Louise Up To No Good

Postby amytom » Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:04 pm

11 times out of 10 it's the carb. Sometimes you rebuild it and it still doesn't work, rebuild it again and it works like a champ, until it doesn't.

For the dinghy I would look at a 2 cycle if you can find one. Lighter and usually more reliable.

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Re: Thelma and Louise Up To No Good

Postby amytom » Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:05 pm

Oh, and ( at the risk of getting in trouble) don't give them female names; makes them more temperamental.

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Re: Thelma and Louise Up To No Good

Postby thinwater » Mon Jan 13, 2014 11:09 pm

Skip the Stabil. If you sailall year it is the Wrong product. Storage only, not so good for anything else. Actually, based on PS lab testing anf my experience, not much good for that. Biobor, Merc, and Seafoam have them burried.

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Re: Thelma and Louise Up To No Good

Postby NautiBits » Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:38 pm

I swapped the carbs tonight. The newly cleaned carb ran smoothly on the starboard engine. The port engine sputtered for about thirty seconds before stalling out. There was a distinct metallic clicking.

So, back to the service manual part of this thread. I hate wasting money. Do I need a service manual for each engine? They are 2002 and 2006 Hi Thrust 8s. They are four stroke engines. They look very similar. I think I read somewhere that they are very similar to the 9.9s of that era. The older one was purchased in Belize and has an odd model number.

What is your advice on which manual and where to purchase it?

Thanks for your help.

Joe Mc

p.s. Tom, I was hoping your odds were the money :!:
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Re: Thelma and Louise Up To No Good

Postby amytom » Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:08 pm

Distinct metal clicking is usually not a good thing.

Have you checked the oil?

Check compression?

Valve gap?

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Re: Thelma and Louise Up To No Good

Postby NautiBits » Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:53 pm

Oil level is good.

Compression tester in storage. I planned on just sticking my finger in the port to see if there is any compression.

I haven't checked the valve clearance. It ran fine and then stopped running. Are the valves shimmed?

Is there any manual adjustment for timing, or does the cdi take care of that?

Tom, do you use a service manual?

Joe Mc
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Re: Thelma and Louise Up To No Good

Postby amytom » Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:05 am

I have the 9.9 service manual, not sure if the 8 is the same for specs.

The valve clearance is adjusted with set screw and jam nut on the rocker arm.

If I remember right the Ignition timing can be adjusted by moving the pulser coil. This coil (on the 9.9 at least) is located just in front of the magneto. I'm stuck in LA right now otherwise I'd open the book and confirm.

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Re: Thelma and Louise Up To No Good

Postby NautiBits » Wed Jan 15, 2014 8:19 am

Thanks again.

I'll be poking at it all week, after work.

Is there a check for the timing belt? Can it be adjusted without removeing the flywheel? The puller is also in storage :evil:

Joe Mc

p.s. searched on timing belt and got this thread...not very popular, I guess..
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Re: Thelma and Louise Up To No Good

Postby amytom » Wed Jan 15, 2014 10:37 am

Timing belt has little dots on the pulleys that should line up. If they don't line up then turn another full revolution and try again (four stroke).

The belt can be slipped off the cam shaft and adjusted without a wheel puller but I've never seen one slip.

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Re: Thelma and Louise Up To No Good

Postby thinwater » Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:28 pm

Folks love their big tender out boards, and Ibelieve there are places it matters . But Ilove my little 3.5-stroke. It willplane with one and IT can pick it p with 2 fingers. Deadsimple to fix... but Idon't have to!

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Re: Thelma and Louise Up To No Good

Postby NautiBits » Sat Jan 18, 2014 3:20 pm

No compression on the top cylinder.

That should explain the current situation :mrgreen:

Next? I'm going to yank it and start disassembly. First to determine if it can be fixed. I'm optimistic about that.
Joe & Deb
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NautiBits
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Re: Thelma and Louise Up To No Good

Postby NautiBits » Sat Jan 18, 2014 5:23 pm

Looks like one of the valves is floating. I'm hoping for a dislodged valve keeper. Off with the valve cover!!
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