Series drogue attachment?

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mikeandrebecca
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Series drogue attachment?

Post by mikeandrebecca »

Perhaps this is premature as we are still a long way off from doing any offshore sailing but I have been doing some reading on storm management and the use of a series drogue. I understand that it would need to be attached to the stern at a VERY strong point(s). Has any PDQ owner deployed one, or planned to? How/where did you tie in the bridle?

Thanks,

Mike
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eepstein
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Re: Series drogue attachment?

Post by eepstein »

Well Drogues are not quite as an emotional topic as anchoring. But I bet you will get a lot of postings. My experience with them and warps in general go back to the 1970s. So all this is just my opinion... I prefer a warp (long line) over a drogue for the simple reason that they are expendable (cause a drogue costs money).

A bridle from each stern cleat to an apex about 50 astern is all you need. To that you attach an old halyard with a ball of rope/rope fender at the end.

One advantage of a 'big yarn ball' of rope (aka rope fender) is that is has less drag and can be used in less stormy conditions. I have an old Hunter 31 monohull and for many years I deployed the warp, with and without the rope fender to smooth the ride on rough Chesapeake Bay days. I have used warps on other people's boats (dock lines tied together) I was delivering or returning from Bermuda or Newport, to calm the ride and make it easier for me to control the boat. I first used a drogue in 2002, in 35 kt winds and it practically stopped the boat and put a huge strain in the boat and sails. It was almost impossible to recover once I realized that we were never going to get anywhere with it deployed.

The reality (to me)is that drogues or warps are great tools and should be used more often than just that one big storm. Old, cheap, easy to deploy, recover, or cut free is the best way to go.

Here is a link for a rope fender (http://www.modelshipwrights.com/modules ... artid=1091) tutorial. BTW a rope fender makes a great fender too.

Hope that helps.
Eric & Bonnie Epstein
s/v Desert Star, PDQ36, Hull 49
Annapolis, MD
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mikeandrebecca
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Re: Series drogue attachment?

Post by mikeandrebecca »

Thanks Eric. I'll try to come up with some less-emotional topic next time I post :)

I have read about the use of a warp of line as you describe. On Maxingout.com the use of an Abbott Drogue is explained and that seems like a good idea too.

My real question was about attaching the drogue (warp). You use the stern cleat. How strong is that? I have a spare winch and I was going to buy another one and have them installed behind the primary ones. Any idea what kind of backing would be needed to give them the necessary strength for this job, or is that just not a good idea at all.
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Re: Series drogue attachment?

Post by eepstein »

I always differ to Jame or sandy on PDQ specific points, especially something like a stress point on Fiberglass. But my gut feeling is that second winches and such are not needed in the drogue equation, and that the stern cleats are ideal. Simple and cheap is the way to go. If you are putting in a second winch for another purpose (dinghy lift, etc.) then those guys would be the ones to say how to do it. If you are in Annapolis for the boat show, please come by the house for the PDQ cookout.
Eric & Bonnie Epstein
s/v Desert Star, PDQ36, Hull 49
Annapolis, MD
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thinwater
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Strength and attachments.

Post by thinwater »

Regarding winches. The PO added a second one on the port side and I tore it out in a 20-25 knot blow a month ago. The stock winches were mounted in a solid glass area. This one was mounted in a parallel position, but it is cored there on the port side. They didn't even put washers under the bolts! I am amazed it lasted as long as it did. I remounted it with an over-sized 3/16" thick FRP pad and fender washers. It also gave me a good reason to service all of my winches. Easy after the first one.

However, there is really little need for a second winch. Starboard needs to, port does not, and the only time I have used them both is when the one ripped!

I would not use a winch to anchor a drouge. Mine tore at ~ 1500 pounds, and well anchored it could take far more, but I would not anchor anything more than warps.

A dingy mainsheet system is an easier way to lift a dingy, I think. Less walking around. See my blog.

Regarding the cleats, I posted that question and got no response. Since they mount over the aft cabins on the 32 they would be hard to back-up; the carpet would need to come down. I cannot speak to the 36. However, I am fairly sure they are in solid glass, probably mounted with fender washers. That would match the bow cleats. That said, they don't quite measure up structurally to the demands of a JSD. I would either mount bails (horizontal chainplates) as Jordon recommends or add another set of very large, well backed cleats. Something you can imagine hanging 2 cars from. Typically a 3/8" bolt is good for ~ 4500# in shear if everything is just so; that means either a chainplate with many 5/16" fasteners or a cleat with 2 1/2" fasteners very well backed and everything glassed solid.

IF I decide to go to Bermuda, I will be adding the chainplates. Simple project with easy access to the back side. The stresses are much simpler to calculate.
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