Windlass base pad

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mikeandrebecca
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Windlass base pad

Postby mikeandrebecca » Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:01 pm

Hi all

We purchased a Lemar Pro 1000 windlass and will be installing it on the starboard bow. Unless I am mistaken, because the surface is not flat, I think we will need to have a base pad under the windlass. I have a friend who will make me such a thing but we have questions on what material we should use. We are comparing the qualities of High Density Polyethelene vs. Delrin. Any ideas on these materials, or any suggestions on alternatives? Or, do we not need such a thing at all?

Mike

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Re: Windlass base pad

Postby mikeandrebecca » Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:06 pm

...crickets...

:)

OK, should I assume that everyone has their windlass situated on a perfectly flat portion of the deck and thus didn't need any sort of base pad?

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thinwater
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There is no pad under ours - just bedding.

Postby thinwater » Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:39 pm

You can see a glimpse of it on my blog, 2nd post down.

I strongly suggest placing something replaceable under the chain before the windlass - the chain really bangs up and down on the gel-coat.

And don't forget the backing plate. This is an application where the backing plate is going to get some salt on it, and I have seen aluminum eaten up in this application. I would use 1/4" pre-cast FRP for this. Either find a cut-off from a fiberglass shop, order on-line, or lay it up. I always seem to find parts of fiberglass tanks or water processing equipment and such at my work. SS would be fine, but that is $$ and very hard to work.

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Re: Windlass base pad

Postby mikeandrebecca » Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:01 pm

Thanks thinwater. I did just look at that pic prior to posting, but it wasn't super clear if there was anything under it or not.

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Re: Windlass base pad

Postby Page 83 » Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:25 am

Making a backing plate is the perfect 'first glass project'; easy to do, easy to clean up, and not very precise. If you have a food vacuum machine, you can even bag the project for a very uniform saturation of the glass. Just don't make it so thick it won't bend to fit the curve under the deck; somewhere around 3/8 of an inch will do. Cover the deck under the chain with a sacrificial piece of starboard about 4" wide, attached with 3M 4200.

I use a cheap piece of aluminum chimney flashing from Home Depot as a mold surface; tack it to a piece of plywood with a couple thick rows of adhesive caulk and before the caulk sets, press it against the underside of the deck to get close to the curvature. Then brush on a coat of mold parting solution (the purple stuff) and lay up some roving. Rotate the orientation of the weave just to develop the habit.

Use the same bedding material above and below the deck, but make the bolt holes larger in the deck itself so that the raw sides of the holes get a good seal*, and so that the winch loads are carried to the backing plate. That will reduce the stress cracking on the deck.

*It might be a good idea to drill the deck holes oversize, fill them with resin, then redrill them if there is a foam core in the deck.
Sandy Daugherty "Page 83" PDQ 36026

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Re: Windlass base pad

Postby mikeandrebecca » Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:37 am

I hate when I read something here and have absolutely no idea what it means. Especially when I know it was explained well! Thanks Sandy. I guess I need to do some reading on fiberglass. I did understand the part about the starboard at least. :)

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Re: Windlass base pad

Postby Page 83 » Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:54 pm

Fiberglass work is needlessly intimidating. West Systems publishes an very nice introduction booklet, you can find it at most marine stores. There are small repair kits with a good selection of ingredients that can get you over the trepidation, but a specific project is the best way to get your feet wet. Prepare for a little sticker shock, the cost of glass and resin comes as a bit of a surprise. But once you get started, you will be looking for an excuse to make something else!

The good news is you can always grind off excess, and add more to the thin spots; something I haven't figured out how to do well when making things out of wood or metal. The bad news is that fiberglass work requires about the same level of meticulousness as the aforementioned, and leaves you itchy.
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Re: Windlass base pad

Postby mikeandrebecca » Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:36 pm

Thanks Sandy. Since your post I have been reading and watching some videos on the West System site. It doesn't look too, too hard. I also just picked up a how-to video at West Marine. Yes, while there I saw the prices of the stuff. Ouch!

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I looked at my windlass this afternoon....

Postby thinwater » Fri Nov 20, 2009 5:43 pm

And found that no backing plate had been used, other than the mating flange that came with the windlass. I don't know if it was a factory install or later.

I can tell you that it has been used hard and that there is no evidence that is "working" or has shifted a tick. I believe I would still add some backing plate if the winch does not come with something substancial, but it is testiment to the fact that PDQ used heavy skins and dense foam. The deck is strong in that area, though it is not solid - I have drilled near there.

A windlass does not develop nearly the force that a 2-speed winch can, and all I managed to do with my winch was press the nuts into the deck. I suspect the flange suppluyed with my winch is enough. It is only about 1-inch wide.

Fiberglass work is fun, once you get the basics down. It is a bit tool-intensive. You want to work neatly, or it gets out of control fast. But it is fun to see what you can make from a bit of wood and glass. I have built water tanks, gasoline tanks, a compass/electronics console, trash cans, storage containers, reparied transoms, added cabinets, and fixed a gaping hole where one Stiletto t-boned another. Other stuff, as well. Yes, the epoxy is very expensive, but it has a very long shelf life and it goes a very long way on small projects. Don't forget the thickener - very useful for making a thicher bonding mix for rough surfaces (like the transom repair I posted) or for sealing the edge of big cut-outs (my bathroom fan, my heater stack, and now your winch mount. Personally, I find the Cabosil (fumed silica) to be most versitle, though it is tough to sand if used for fairing large areas.

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Re: Windlass base pad: essential tools

Postby Page 83 » Sat Nov 21, 2009 9:50 am

Other than expendables such as masks, gloves, mixing cups, tongue depressors, and acetone, there are few essential tools. The first is a roller with ridges that gets the bubbles out of a layup, and the second is a grinder. Normal sanders such as orbital or belt sanders, aren't aggressive enough. However, a grinder is capable of some serious damage or injury, and you should get used to using one in various contorted positions before applying it to anything lily-white!

Use cheap scissors and pitch them if they start growing a fiberglass beard!
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Re: Windlass base pad

Postby mikeandrebecca » Sat Nov 21, 2009 10:20 am

Great info! Thanks guys.

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And just one more thing....

Postby thinwater » Sun Nov 22, 2009 11:14 am

Page 83 wrote:Other than expendables such as masks, gloves, mixing cups, tongue depressors, and acetone, there are few essential tools. The first is a roller with ridges that gets the bubbles out of a layup, and the second is a grinder. Normal sanders such as orbital or belt sanders, aren't aggressive enough. However, a grinder is capable of some serious damage or injury, and you should get used to using one in various contorted positions before applying it to anything lily-white!

Use cheap scissors and pitch them if they start growing a fiberglass beard!


I am in the midst of a small epoxy/glass project and it reminded me of a mistake I made 3x before it completely sunk in:

You MUST wash the amine blush from the surface before painting. Use soap (like TSP), water, and a 3M pad. Other wise, whether you have sanded the surface well or not, the paint will not dry! It can remain sticky for a week, at least. Sanding helps, but scrubbing with water (not solvent) is much, much better. It scrubs off very easily.

I actually had one project where I wiped the paint off with solvent after ~ 5 days, washed it, and re-painted. Yes, that was the last time I made that mistake. The first 2, I suppose I had sanded enough that the effect was minor. Perhaps the rain had helped as well.

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Re: Windlass base pad

Postby amytom » Sun Nov 22, 2009 4:08 pm

As mine was the original project boat from hell at one time. (hurricanes have that effect) there are quite a few areas that weren't faired very well. I might just start tackling that in the next couple of months. Looking at the WM sticker shock I was thinking there must be a cheaper place to get these supplies. Anybody have a secret supplier?

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Re: Windlass base pad

Postby Page 83 » Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:08 am

I cheat: I work for West. But I prefer to pick out the latest expiration date when I buy anything that gurgles when I shake it. One of my jobs is to put the old stuff in front, but that's no guarantee.
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Re: Windlass base pad

Postby amytom » Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:46 am

In an attempt to further drift away from the original post:

The first area I'd like to tackle is a raised area on the deck near the port bow. From posts above I assume I need a full grinder to remove excess material (still seems a belt sander would work on flat surfaces) then fill any low spots with epoxy thickened with some filler material, then shape it where I want it and prime then paint and texture. Simple huh?

Is it reasonable to do this in the water? Should I put up some plastic on the lifelines and run a shopvac at the sander/grinder to catch the dust?


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