Air Conditioning Intake

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danhaun
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Re: Air Conditioning Intake

Postby danhaun » Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:29 am

The intake, pump and strainer are under the fridge cabinet. The unit (compressor/ condenser / evaporator) is under the port settee in the salon. It discharges right below the unit through the bridge deck.

I did not install it but it has ducts into the galley and one each port and starboard (top of each settee seatback/wall) and one small one to the head. I don't recall any evidence of major surgery to get the unit under the settee but then I did not look closely.

Power is thought the AC panel with one breaker for the pump and one for the compressor/ condenser / evaporator. The controls are to the left of the electrical panel.

I can't take pics right now.

I hope that this helps.

Dan

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Re: Air Conditioning Intake

Postby thinwater » Thu Jun 18, 2015 9:07 am

Dan:

That really helps. It sounds like exactly the direction I was headed. Yes, I would very much like to see some pictures, but there is absolutely no rush.
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Re: Air Conditioning Intake

Postby danhaun » Sat Jun 27, 2015 5:19 pm

Here are some photos of unit and of the cooling water intake pieces. The "T" just after the strainer feeds a wash down pump.

I removed the cabinet and just left the cabinet front in order to fit an Engle drop-in refrigerator, replacing the propane model. But the intake stuff fits under the cabinet and had a removable trap door to allow access to the the ball valve and strainer. Let me know if you need more details.

I hope that this helps.


Dan
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Re: Air Conditioning Intake

Postby amytom » Sun Jun 28, 2015 8:36 am

Dan,

Thanks for the pictures, that really helps.

Where in the galley is the outlet as well as in the salon? You mentioned they were on top of the seatbacks but are they forward or aft and would you change any of the locations now if you could?

Where is the aft unit mounted? And are you also happy with that setup?

Tom

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Re: Air Conditioning Intake

Postby danhaun » Sun Jun 28, 2015 3:23 pm

The starboard side is forward and the port one is aft(ish).

The second unit is under the port berth and it feeds both staterooms with ducts going under the lazaretto compartment and entering the stateroom on the aft bulkhead. This seems to work well but the aft unit needs a sump for condensate whereas the forward unit drains by gravity.

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Re: Air Conditioning Intake

Postby thinwater » Mon Jun 29, 2015 7:25 pm

Thanks for the pics!

I'm thinking I will mount the strainer (Vetus rather than bronze) right at the water line, with the pump next to it. Both will be on a piece of FRP mounted on studs, like my solar panels, so that it can be fabricated at home and easily removed for service. Under the fridge is good, since I have the propane fridge.

I'm still in the air on vents. One in the galley for certain. I figure 2 in the salon near the fans, so that the fans can pick up the cold air and circulate it; that worked well with my portable and with my propane heater (the propane heater is down by the head down, and a fan blasts downwards on the stack and heater). Probably one down by the nav as well.

Because it is not as hot for as long here, and in the interests of simplicity (can run that much through the panel) and saving weight, I think I can do this with 1 x 9000 btu unit and fans to push the cold aft. Generally we do not cool the cabins until the sun sets, and we make good use of reflective covers.
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Re: Air Conditioning Intake

Postby Phenix » Wed Aug 26, 2015 3:04 pm

I have no idea how I missed this post up until now.

I installed AC in Chicago-based Phenix PDQ 32 hull #7 in 2000, a year after I bought it. What caused me to do this was a weeklong trip to Michigan in late-August where the daytime high was always in the 90s, sometimes 100! I looked at many options but I settled in on the Flagship Marine unit (Stuart, FL). This was a great choice, they have been tremendously helpful throughout the years on the few follow-up calls I needed to make.

Unlike the factory installs, which were under the bunks, I mounted a single unit under the salon seat (port side). When I go to the boat tomorrow, I'll check the BTUs. Here is a diagram of where things are:

Phenix-AC.jpg


- AC Unit, YELLOW SQUARE, under salon seat, port side
- 3 discharges, YELLOW ovals, one in "flower pot", two others just above the floor before the stairs, thess vents swivel to divect air up or down
- Intake, YELLOW LINE, near floor under table, port side - this must not be blocked
- thru-hull, Pump and filter, PURPLE OVAL, under fridge (the thru-hull was there already)

The good thing about this is that it can cool the salon area during the day, then the air can be redirected to one or both of the cabins at night. Small fans sitting on the stove and the nav station areas are very helpful in getting air into the cabins.

Water discharge from the AC unit was tied into one of the the galley sink drains. It also needs a "condensation pan drain" which I also tied into that drain, gravity seems to make it work.

If you have any questions or want some pictures, let me know.
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Re: Air Conditioning Intake

Postby thinwater » Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:39 pm

The galley sink drain idea is good. One less hole.

I assume the area where the trough hull is is bulk headed above the water line? It is on mine.

I would like to know the BTU rating and the amp draw. Is it wired through the panel?
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Re: Air Conditioning Intake

Postby Phenix » Mon Aug 31, 2015 12:57 pm

Here is the info on the unit itself, from Flagship marine in Stuart, FL.

Flagship model: FMAC16R
BTU: 16,500
Refrigerant: R417A
Amps (compressor): 9.3, Evap-fan: 3.3, Heat: 18.9, Raw water pump: 2.5

I wired it to the panel, no issues.

No, the thru-hull is not bulkheaded, it is near the center of the bottom of the hull under the fridge. Here is an overhead view of the entire area under the fridge. I think the hole was there originally for a 2nd sensor (maybe fishfinder) so the yard used that hole when the installed the thru-hull and valve. They needed a reducer as they didn't want to install a valve that large.

20150828_160550.jpg


For the ducting to go from the AC unit to the flowerpot and also all the way around to the other side near the nav station, I needed to cut away some of the inside of a couple of the cabinets. Below are picture of the unit and some of the ducting, as well as the pump. You'll notice the "relief valve" above the pump. This is because with the combination of the valve, filter and pump all needing to be below the waterline, the whole thing does not "prime" perfectly 100% of the time. I like to close the valve too, when not running the AC. After opening the valve, I can visually look at the filter and if it is not full, sometimes the pump will not have prime and will not pump water. So I just open the relief valve a little, put a jug up to it, and all the air and some water blasts out of there and everything is fine until the boat moves, which is when I close the valve again. I experimented with moving things around a bit but never got it 100%. If I had to do it ALL over again, I might consider putting the entire valve/filter/pump under a bunk so everything might be lower. Then, I'd make sure I have a strong enough pump to get the water to the AC unit.

I also took some pics of how I redid below the galley sink.. It's confusing, but basically, the AC discharges through one of the holes meant for the sink (with nothing else tied into there), and the 2 sinks (and AC drip pan) discharge out the 2nd sink drain.
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Re: Air Conditioning Intake

Postby thinwater » Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:42 pm

Thanks!

Though I see a few things I might do differently (every boat represents a different starting point), it certainly eliminates a lot of guess work.

Again, thanks for taking the time.
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Re: Air Conditioning Intake

Postby thinwater » Sat Nov 07, 2015 12:27 pm

I installed the thru-hull during my resent haul, so I am on my way.

I am actually considering the space under the forward settee. What I am not getting is how to run vents past the mast support beam, short of major surgery to cabinets--and I don't want to loose any space there--the only way I can see is making a custom duct to slide through the narrow space above the beam. Not too difficult. I really want to conserve storage space and keep the ducts out of the way. Then I can easily reach 2 forward seatback vents and 2 seat end vents. The return is simple, through the forward settee.

I'm not sure where the thermostat can go; it depends on the lead length. The existing breakers should work for 10,000 BTUs, which I believe is all I need (we only have 6700 now) so long as I use window covers.
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Re: Air Conditioning Intake

Postby amytom » Thu Dec 03, 2015 4:05 pm

Was looking at relocating my 20k unit under the port settee. The unit is 15.5" tall so the seat boards would have to be shimmed up by half an inch and then the ducts would be a pain to run as its a tight fit between the cf beam and the galley power outlet. Then I thought why not put it under the front settee seat, easy access for the ducts, power, and water lines. The area is only 13" tall but as the center seat is never used (compression post in the way) I could replace the center cushion with a wood cabinet lifting up several inches with shelves to hold laptops etc... I could pad and upholster the sides to match the cushions.

Any thoughts on this? Any ideas on what else to incorporate into this cabinet?

Tom

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Re: Air Conditioning Intake

Postby thinwater » Fri Dec 04, 2015 10:09 am

For me, we use the settee for bunks in the summer when it is hot (great breeze up there) and watching movies, so not a possibility. But I can see the idea. You could just jump the seat up a little.

You can get over the CF beam with a bit of ductwork; a transition piece to take it from 4" round to 1 1/4" x 10" and back.
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Re: Air Conditioning Intake

Postby amytom » Fri Mar 25, 2016 10:51 pm

Finally shoehorned the 20k AC unit into the port setee. Quite a bit of trimming to the seat opening. Next step is to mount it down which leads to a question:

What is the thickness and make-up of the bridge deck area? Is it divinicel core as above water line or solid as at the waterline? Also, how thick? If cored I will have to drill, bent nail, refill then mount the rubber feet. How long of screws etc?

For ducting I'm thinking of a four inch duct to the galley on the aft side above the stove that can cool the galley or angle back to the port cabin. A two inch duct in the head, a two inch duct to each side of the forward seat back feeding right into the fans. These three two inch ducts can pass around the carbon beam behind the power outlet above the sink without cutting into the cabinet. All the outlets have dampers to reduce flow to divert the air to other outlets.

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Re: Air Conditioning Intake

Postby thinwater » Sat Mar 26, 2016 12:54 am

No, you do NOT need to drill through. I don't plan to. Make ~ 4" diameter pads from prelam GPR, thread studs into them, and bond these feet to the deck. I mount stuff this way all the time without drilling through--great for mounting stuff to hulls. Well bonded they are nearly as strong as through bolts.

If you don't like threading GRP or want a lower profile, there are also these:
http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/us ... teel+Studs
http://duckworksbbs.com/hardware/misc/s ... /index.htm

The ducting plan is similar to mine.

I should be starting in a few weeks. The AC unit should be here any day (settled on 12K, but I'm not in FL).
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