PDQ OWNERS FORUM

Hi All,

I have had nothing but trouble with the company that hauled out and did major repairs to my 36' cat - Noshooz back in December. But the fact that the bottom growth is rapid is a problem. I have it cleaned once a month and it's not keeping up. It's worse than it was before it was painted.

Any help with how I handle getting it fixed and how to get the boatyard to take responsibility? I was told they used Pettit Unepoxy - 5 gallons @ $140/gallon.

Thanks for any advice!
Brenda
813-727-4535 brenda@realwired.com

A bottom shelf paint. I'm not surprised. The only way this is their fault--other than poor advise--is if they did not actually put on 2 coats. Also, the amount sounds fishy; 2 gallons puts 2 coats on my PDQ 34. At MOST you should have needed 3 gallons to put 2 coats on a PDQ 36. Perhaps you need a new yard or learn to DIY, because it sounds like you got 1 coat (1 gallon) of a cheap paint while paying a marketed up price for 5 gallons ($700 in paint only).

Painting the bottom is trivially easy; normally I will knock out the prep, taping, and one coat by 10 am, do some other projects, eat lunch, and get on a second coat at 4pm. A short (3') roller extension makes it much easier on the back and wrists.

Assuming you like hard paint, next time use 2 coats of Trinidad. 2 years with a few scrubs.

If you like soft paint (no paint build-up), I've tried many and Micron 66 is expensive but worth every penny ($490 in paint for 2 years).

Sorry.

Hey Brenda,

I agree with Thinwater that Unipoxy is a cheaper paint. But it's not that bad. A couple things:

1: $140 per gallon is high. It's $95 on Defender. I expect a yard markup, but almost 50% ?

2: I also agree that 5 gallons sounds fishy. I suspect you got 1 coat.

3: I have a boat in SW Florida and nearly everyone has to have someone dive the bottom for cleaning once a month in the summer months. Even new paint jobs. It seems from you area code that you're in the region. Winter months are different, but summer growth down there is unreal. Although you say the growth is worse than before, which is obviously not good.

Hard to say, but I think some combination of new yard, better paint, and just living with the fact that it's a jungle down there in the summer is what's needed.

Thanks for your replies guys.

I need to figure out what recourse I have. I spent over $50,000 having the boat repainted, all new hatches and port lights, replacement of hardware and a few other minor fixes. I feel like I was taken advantage of. The port lights leak, the bottom paint was done wrong and I had to spend a lot of money after I got my boat back because they put much of the electrical back in place wrong. This is the report from my diver.... 7/28/14 Boat Cleaning - Hulls- poor. Hard growth removed from- both hulls. - Both hulls are completely covered in barnacles and shells after one month. It should not be like this with new bottom paint.

Any suggestions on how to handle the situation with the yard? The yard is in St. Pete and I am in Tampa. I guess I may just have to lick my wounds and reach into my wallet!

Brenda
brenda@realwired.com 813-727-4535

Yikes. That sounds pretty bad. The diver's report is far worse than I thought. That ain't bad paint, that's almost no paint IMHO.

I've had one similar situation. I had the boat at an open yard in Chicago and I used a contractor (not the yard) to repair some external damage. He walked off the job after getting his 50% deposit (about 6K). I eventually sued him. The judge split the baby and gave me 3K, because the guy lied and said that he did do some work. Pissed me off. Even when you win, though, it can be hard to collect. This guy didn't pay me for 2 years. Then he finally tried to buy a house and the judgement came up on his credit report. His lawyer called me and asked if I'd settle for 1.5K if he got it to me that day. I could tell they were desperate, so said hell no, wire me the 3K today or no deal. And they did.

But that process took 3-4 years and was a headache.

I would start by listing your complaints and making it clear that you are willing to write up your experience on places like ActiveCaptain, Yelp, Facebook, this forum etc. Bad reviews on social media can really hurt businesses, even boat yards. See if you can at least get a partial refund.

BTW, what yard was it?

Thanks a lot. Your experience with lawsuits is a common one and why I hate to EVER do one. I am in commercial real estate and so I've had and seen a lot. Your personal experience and advice is helpful. The "work" was done at Progressive Marine - Dan Jimenez is the owner. Brenda

We had a problem with "Pettit Trinidad" and a marina in S/W Florida. We believe that the paint was watered or was not Trinidad. Another PDQ had Micron CS applied in the same yard and had the same problem. Our bottoms both looked like Ocean reefs after a few weeks. I contacted the local Pettit representative, who agreed to replace all of the paint and pay half of the labor. The other boat received no resolution from Micron or the Marina. The Marina was very uncooperative during this process, so we feel justified in assuming that they simply cheated us. The manager in charge of that company has since left and we understand that repairs done there seem to be more straightforward and honest. I would suggest that you call Pettit.

Terry, That is a great suggestion! I'm on it. Brenda

Far more than cars, with boats you need to understand what is going to be done and get quotes. There are good places, and there are thieves that either over charge or simply don't know how or care to be efficient with your labor dollars. Now you know why there is so much DIY; a skilled owner can be worth well over $100 in after taxes in savings, and some of the work is more rewarding than what ever we would be doing after dinner.

But it shouldn't have to be DIY. Get 2 quotes and go with local reputation; I sub-out some work (canvas, welding, hauling), follow those 2 rules, and have never been disapointed.

Words to live by for sure! I got a call from the Pettit paint salesperson so I'll post how things go with that. Thanks, Brenda

^^ Ask him if that boat takes 5 gallons. I doubt the area is more than 300 ft2, and most paints go about 300 ft2/gallon.

You might also ask other customers how much paint they were billed for. There might be a pattern and you might not be alone. A judge might find it more interesting that way.

I feel like this is not really Pettit's fault.

I did not think that it was Pettits fault in my case, however, I would have gotten no where without their help. The Marina shop manager was a total ass and was completely uncooperative. Our other friends did not receive any help and has used Micron CS. We both had the same failures and were sailing together in the same waters. Thank you Pettit.

Slightly off topic, but not entirly. I've used 4 different paints, in search of the best 2-year paint.
1. Micron CSC. Good first year, some scrubbing 2nd.
2. Micron 66. Perfect first year. Almost perfect 2nd. $$ and not recomended for brackish (I'm near Annapolis), but it didn't have any trouble. Interlux rep said the key to my success was an imidieate trip south during the curing period, and exposed marine (little freshwater flow), and that I run the paint for a full 2 years (no build-up.
3. WM PCS Gold. Said to be by Pettit. Good price, but not even a 1-year paint. Heavy soft growth in 10 months. Never again. But it did scrub OK. I'll be re-painting at 18 months, eliminating any promised cost savings.
4. Micron Plus. Like CSC.

I'm going back to Micron 66, 2 coats. It is the only paint that has ever given me true 2-year performance. Just make sure you scrub and sand first; no need to strip, just make sure there is NOTHING loose. PS rates it tops and they test on the FL west coast.

Brenda, Glad you called Pettit. Have them come and look at the bottom. If the marina failed to use Pettit paint, the Pettit guy may not tell you, but he sure as the devil will have a conversation with the marina. Skip the legal action crap, you spend more money than repainting the bottom. Instead just pass the word around. The dishonest guys go away pretty fast when the word gets out. Pettit Trinidad always lasted between 2 and 3 years for us in SW Florida. Ignore the Cheaspeake recommendations. The paint we had good luck with there was not ideal in Florida.

^^ Exactly. Always local knowledge. That said, among soft paints, I believe M66 is rated best in FL. Among hard paints, Trinidad is best most places. Deciding between hard and soft is a matter of...

Hard.
* Gotta scrub once and a while. Is the water warm and/or are you going to hire a diver?
* Cleanest bottom after scrubbing.
* Will have to strip paint every X years.
The best go over 2 years.

Soft.
* Do you sail often enough for the water to ablate the paint?
* Can't be scrubbed (perhaps just a few times gently), but does OKish without scrubbing.
* No build-up (no stripping) so long as you use the paint completely (paint every year and there will be build-up).
* One coat of cheaper paint can make sense for those that haul every year.
The best go just 2 years.

Some folks get longer life by applying more than 2 coats. That has not been my experience, and I usually have some reason to haul every 2 years anyway. This last time it was an opportunity to stretch my 32 to 34. But there is always something after 2 years.

No, I wouldn't bother with legal over paint; just a pill to take. Whether the other $48K involved similarly flagrant chicanery is a better question. I suspect the paint is the obvious part but not the serious part.